Let's see where this goes.
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Ka'Lei15 jam yang lalu
Night king breaks spear and plunges it into theon, theon looks at his other hand while on the ground bleeding(the spearhead with dragon glass is still there). He looks at the nk and stabs its leg, nk drops and slowly shatters, white walkers finish off theon. You made an awesome video, that was my thoughts of how its could've gone. Great work, great video.
Petra Hajna5 hari yang lalu
This last sesson only Theon death made me cry .... I did realy wish Theon survive ,he wil find way home to his family-Starks
Andracoz7 hari yang lalu
I'm glad that not everyone buys into this whole fan outrage/blame culture we live in today. George is game of thrones not the writers of the tv series, the books are obviously more in depth and people need to understand this along with the fact the tv series pushed ahead of the author, this was always a concern for me but i can imagine the fan outrage if the tv series stopped to wait for the books.. but the money men would never have allowed it because nowadays everything has to be finished at a deadline of yesterday. Dany clearly showed signs of madness even on the tv series and watching her best friend murdered before her after her dieing wish of prettymuch burn them all, well that's exactly what she did.
Le Wolf9 hari yang lalu
Unfortunately this is NOT the only missed opportunity that led to the ruination of the final season... though Theon dispatching of the Night King would have done wonders to give back some sort of sense of redemption for the rest of the rushed and poorly conceived wedge of... swan songs of this abomination of a season...
Michael Belluche9 hari yang lalu
Wow just listened to you ATTEMPTING to debate...you are one smarmy little prick aren’t you. Have a real smart mouth one you being that you’re an idiot. People like you should not have the ability to hide behind a keyboard lmao
Francesca Heather-Hayes11 hari yang lalu
Thanks for this video. I’m one of the few people who liked how the show ended - though I agree that it wasn’t well written and we were left to extrapolate far too much. I was always pretty certain that it was Bran who helped put things right between Sansa and Arya in S7 when Littlefinger was stirring trouble. Bran was one of my top three favourite characters, especially in the books - partly because he was so disappointed in himself. He himself thought he’d be better off dead. He was still dreaming of becoming a knight in Bloodraven’s cave and was falling in love with Meera, even though neither was possible. I felt he had the Stark honour combined with the godhood of being the three eyed raven. I’d have liked the show to explore him more. Anyway I’m really enjoying your videos. Thank you so much for not running with the crowd. All hail Bran the Broken!💚🐺
Darth Invictus12 hari yang lalu
Hey, I saw the debate with Mauler and all them. You were treated very poorly, and I found myself appalled by the way they and their listeners treated you and your arguments. The internet needs more people like you, who seriously engage with stuff and don’t just bash things out of emotion.
Francesca Heather-Hayes13 hari yang lalu
I found this video wonderful to watch after Season 8. So many of the things you said about Jon and the forces that drove his story were accurate. Jon would have been going against everything he believed in if he’d carried on allowing Dany to torch Westeros into submission. It was hard because he loved her. Killing her for the sake of (initially) his family might well have haunted him the rest of his life but I think equally had he stood by while Dany and her armies conquered in fire and blood, he would probably have been a lot more tormented. I think in many ways the True North with the Free Folk were the best place for him, where he could be most true to himself . There was an absence of politics, Houses, categories of birth with the Free Folk. I suspect I’m in the minority but I don’t think I would’ve wished for a different ending for him. Whatever the direction the plot had taken I never wanted to see him on the Iron Throne because what that involves just isn’t him.
Zarina Macha13 hari yang lalu
So glad this channel exists, and love your video. Dany is one of the best characters written in TV because she has so much depth and realism. She is a realistic person, torn between belief in liberation and ruthless bloodlust. I recently wrote a post on my blog comparing Dany and Walt from Breaking Bad: www.thezarinamachablog.co.uk/2019/11/daenerys-and-walter-white-same.html
I'd also like to mention that sometimes great art is poorly received on an initial reception. Joker has received negative criticism from critics, and The Shawshank Redemption was first poorly received by audiences and critics who disliked the humanising of prisoners. Maybe in the future GOT will be appreciated for what it is and how it ambitiously sought to subvert movie tropes and cliches.
Excellent video, thank you for intelligently breaking this down. I am so fed up of entitled babies whingeing because the story didn't go their way. It's an insult to the writers and to GRRM. Newsflash; no one CARES what random people on the internet want. It's not your story to write, so if it ends the way you don't want, tough. I'd rather a story have stuff happen that I don't want or expect BECAUSE IT IS INTERESTING. Who wants to see the hero Jon Snow defeat the dark lord NK? BORING! No one needs another Harry Potter + Voldemort/Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader show down. And have Jaime stay with Brienne and live happily ever after? That's not how life works and it's not how the story works. And if you re-watch the series, Dany was always a ruthless conqueror who wanted to LAY WASTE TO ARMIES AND BURN CITIES TO THE @*:€(?! GROUND. Yes, season 8 was not perfect but it does not deserve all of the hate it's received from arrogant morons. And yes, the comment section proves that most people have overreacted.
Lord Captain Commander Dunn Of the Queen’s Guard14 hari yang lalu
There is no such thing as toxic reactions to trailers like cats or the old sonic trailer. Those trailers had hideous designs for everything in them. It’s not oh this doesn’t conform to what I like because I am a fan of sonic or cats it’s general people saying “ah! gross! kill it with fire!”
Brotmeister14 hari yang lalu
All those people with their "subversion fetish", I swear... Listen. Getting something unexpected does not mean that it is good. If I break into your house, take a dump on the table and then leave again that is sure not what you expected but it's still not good.
Ethan Ragbir14 hari yang lalu
Grey Worm is Unsullied. They literally hold obedience above all else and in the books are brutally trained so that they are hardly human anymore, so it would make sense to just depict them as soldiers with hardly any personality in any shows/movies made. Messandei even in the books says when she was given a chance to leave Daenery's said she had no friends, family, and really no place to go. Not to mention all the chapters following the Essos/Daenerey's plot in the book focuses well... Daenerey's it's telling her story so it obviously makes sense that in the Television adaptation they're supporting characters. I don't believe there is a white savior attitude in either the show or books. Race in either show isn't explicitly mentioned other than to describe someone.
Default Name19 hari yang lalu
Better - Theon down, looks dead. Nk closes in , crows attack his head. Arya runs into scene, jumps gets caught. she does the move, nk swats the knife away breaking her hand, then tosses her, he walks toward Bran, she picks up a discarded wight sword, limping. Nk closes in , they lookd doomed. Crows swarm around nk head, distracting him, then you see an arm stab the knife inthe nk's back..Pull back its Theon. Nk explodes, Theon falls over dead.
Matthew Mcchesney20 hari yang lalu
Or you could just enjoy the show you fuckn jerk off loser
Jay B21 hari yang lalu
Am the only one who was deeply relieved when KHal Drogo died? I mean he was even meaner than Viserys. I mean raping women and enslaving people was not Daenerys's idéal. That's my thought.
Laura Andžāne22 hari yang lalu
Just felt like checking in on this shitstorm of offended and butthurt commentators to say that I absolutely agree with pretty much everything you said in the video. Been hoping someone does a video like this since I’m incredibly fed up with the trashing and constant moaning of GOT fans. Honestly? I loved the way it ended.
Danielle Neville23 hari yang lalu
From the beginning Dany was always someone I could relate to and admire. Then in season 7-8, that connection just snapped. It's like I didn't even know her anymore, she was a totally different person.
veteran012123 hari yang lalu
The amount of hate this show got was ridiculously undeserved.
Paola Moreno24 hari yang lalu
Bran is sooo werid
Aegon Conqueror25 hari yang lalu
Bran reminds me of Dr Manhattan from Watchmen Dr Manhattan can see all of time at once however he cannot interfere with it as it is all preordained and even if he wanted to change the future he wouldn’t be able to /it would just be a form of him fulfilling things exactly as they are supposed to happen. The line that sums it up best from The Watch Men is : “We are all puppets I can just see the string” Time is cyclical, the past is the present as the present is the past and so it the future.
DR Pizza Games 10125 hari yang lalu
Theon should've been stabbed by Night King like in the show, but then before the NK can get too far Jon shows up and we get the fight we wanted but Jon ends up losing when the NK grabs his sword by the blade and tosses it aside, he approaches Jon who is now backing up on the ground and shielding Bran with his body. The NK draws his sword to kill Jon and Theon appears behind NK mid swing (similar to how Arya appeared in the episode but NK already has his sword out) NK whirls around and crosses swords with Theon but in a moment of slow motion Longclaw breaks through his sword and cuts into the NK, who shatters just like in the show I know there's a plot hole of how Longclaw didn't break through the White Walker's sword in Hardhome, I'll make and edit if I think of an explanation or maybe someone can leave a comment with an idea, thanks for reading!
hahaheterjag25 hari yang lalu
The big difference between Aragorn/King Arthur and Jon Snow is that Jon is pretty dumb. Zero communication about the dead beyond the wall caused him to be killed by the nights watch. His stupidity in Battle of the Bastards was as far from a King as you can see. Went beyond the wall to catch a wight with only ten men and only his enormous plot armor saved him, again. To dumb to be a good King
Josie M25 hari yang lalu
Danny always tried to help the underdogs at the end she lost everyone she loved and snapped
Angel Storm26 hari yang lalu
Oh look another narcissist Dany hater from Freefolk who can't accept that she is still the most popular character on GOT. It seems you have constructed a place for all your misogynistic, followers to circle-jerk to Dany's death. She starts out as an abuse victim, molested, raped and sold. For her story to end the way it did...whether GRRM or 2Ds idea - its disgusting and so is anyone who supports it
Archen Forever28 hari yang lalu
"But a dragon could not feed a hungry child nor help a dying woman’s pain. And who would ever dare to love a dragon?" - Daenerys Targaryen
Taku The MC28 hari yang lalu
You might enjoy this one idreporter.net/v/video-g8KHOFQ-rcQ.html
James Fitzgerald28 hari yang lalu
Yeah, no, Jon was the one that was foreshadowed for forever to be the one to kill the Night King, Theon wasn't, Jon should've killed the Night King, not Theon, you can't foreshadow something for years and just throw some twist on it randomly.
Александар Цветановић29 hari yang lalu
This just goes to show how her character has been doomed to fall from the very start. And I don't mind it, I honestly don't. It's kind of poetic, if you think about it. I just feel heartbroken because of how they executed the whole thing. If we were able to follow her slow descent into darkness, I honestly believe none of us would make a big deal out of it, because we would understand the course of actions that led her to that place. Like JRRM did with many other characters, such as Jamie, the Hound, Melisandra etc. They all had their full circle moment and it all made sense in its own time. Daenerys' character , on the other hand, was completely butchered, which is why it left so many people heartbroken after the show ended. It just felt... way too rushed to fit a specific ending, at this exact point it time. Brilliant analysis, btw! You really put out some valid arguments and I fully understood where it came from. Thank you for this video.
Robin Melendez29 hari yang lalu
OH MY GOODNESS YEZENIRL. Once again this video fails me in the way ALL of your others do: it’s at least an hour TOO short. I could legit listen to you discuss GOT & ASOIAF on the daily. For hours. *sigh* Super grateful for what we get though! Another thoughtful installment. THANK YOU for this fine work.
Nino James CuestasBulan Yang lalu
Either your guess is right or DnD secretly straight up copied bits of your video
MicMakBulan Yang lalu
*_It would have been easy for the writers to abandon Martin's vision_* You say that as if GoT was faithful to the themes of ASOIAF from S01 to S07. GoT strayed away from Martin's themes and story season ago. And this is where I we are divided amongst disappointed fans. The majority of disappointed fans seem to think that GoT started sucking from S07 onward. A majority of fans think S06 was amazing, and one of the best, if not the best season for some. S06 is the perfect example of visual spectacle hoodwinking the audience into believing the story makes sense. Nobody sees the plot holes, I only saw some, not all, but enough to be disappointed. But once you think critically about the season you cannot unsee it. Sansa not telling Jon about the army of the Vale, and the fact that she's willing to let Jon & Rickon die so she can win her little game of thrones. The fact that none of the northerners have questions about Jon deserting the Night's Watch, and would crown him King. As if they would believe him if he told the truth. That makes zeroo sense. And lastly and I know this is nitpicky but I don't understand why when Jon, Sansa, & Davos were trying to convince Lady Mormont to help, none of them mentioned Rickon. *_"Bear Island knows no king but the king in the north, whose name is Stark."_* Rickon Stark is the heir to Winterfell, he is alive and a prisoner yet he is not mentioned to Lady Mormont. He is the only motivator to go to war with the Boltons for Jon & Sansa, yet he is not mentioned. It's the threat White Walkers that sways her?! For a lot of fans like me there is a stark difference in quality between S01-S04 vs S05-S08. The first 4 seasons were overall excellent but there were still some key areas in them where the showrunners strayed away from the books, and from Martin's vision. The prime example being Stannis Baratheon.
*_Thanks to online spoilers, most people knew that those characters were doomed within a month of the start of the show_* Are you serious? Most people knew in the early days of S01 that main characters would die? BS. Total BS. GoT started becoming mainstream post S03. Only after S03, was it far more likely that anyone starting the show at that point would be spoiled to some degree. If you've never watched GoT, you have certainly heard of it. And if it's post S03, you know why the show is popular, you know it's popular because main characters die, and therefore you're on high alter for that. But to suggest that most people knew about book spoilers during S01 is BS. GoT was not mainstream then, and you'd have to actively seek out the spoilers. I started watching GoT after S02 and I knew nothing.
al swearengenBulan Yang lalu
if only every moron who blindly shits on s8 could stop following the hivemind and form their own opinion. it’s not without criticism but 90% of the complaints come people who wanted some marvel esque ending. dany was always a ruthless conqueror and she’s the same in the books, this “twist” comes from grrm who is an outspoken pacifist. “but but but it’s not the ending it’s the execution!!” == buzzword phrase that has lost all meaning edit: thank you for making this excellent video, i hope it gets the (positive) reception it deserves.
Wisdom Manari'Bulan Yang lalu
Wtf is EFAP?!?
J RobBulan Yang lalu
Only unhinged liberal betas, like those who post on reeesetera...are GoT and the show runners Dumb and Dumber...apologists. It isn’t that deep. They’re just shit writers and once the source material dried up they destroyed the franchise. They’re a laughingstock
Tu Pimp A CaterpillarBulan Yang lalu
Sigh* was having a good debate with someone on here and they literally rage quite and deleted the their comment section 😆 This is how you know how great of a character Daenerys Targaryen is. People get into their feelings and ignore all the evidence presented by the story and on this video of who and what she actually was most of the time. They would rather stick to their own idealistic “NOT MY DANY” point of view of what she could’ve been. Oh well! Shout out to Frank Lee;-)
András SBulan Yang lalu
There's nothing wrong with Dany's character, the problem is with the last few seasons.
Rozzie 888Bulan Yang lalu
The thing I found disingenuous about the burning of KL is that at the time she commits the act, it's made out like she's really distraught. Then later on it's like "Oh no, I was actually just being ruthless to create a better world." I guess because at that point she's fully reconciled with her actions?
5hane9roBulan Yang lalu
What do you think of D&D admitting they are hack frauds?
QueenofXibalbaBulan Yang lalu
WTF. No, the ingridients are not there. Daenerys is no more cruel than many make characters.
James BurnsideBulan Yang lalu
This is a really good analysis that has a lot of detail and thought put into it and says a lot of what I try to say when I argue my point about why Dany burning a city makes sense. And what's great is this didn't take a full hour to make. You're a brave man, here's hoping you don't get mass brigaded with dislikes and the comment thread becoming a chorus of 'you fookin' kneeler'.
Richard StrongBulan Yang lalu
She started out wanting to set a horde of rapists and murderers onto Westeros because she felt she was owed. The concept of her noble cause came afterwards and ultimately proved to be a thin veneer that shattered when she realised the people of Westeros did not want the offspring of a mad tyrant to rule them. She was refused and as a consequence that facade came crumbling and out stepped another mad Targaryen.
Jorah came to save her from vas dorthrak ..what was her motivation of going back inside just to burn all the Khals when she already had a chance to escape?? Why did she burn a man alive and have him eaten when she knew theres a high chance of him being innocent and she said “maybe I should let my dragons decide” Why did she burn Dickon Tarley and his father when they had already yielded? ( this one is easy but the answer is also part of the point) Why did she have 163 people crucified when some of them were innocent? (or atleast less than guilty) she had no proof that each individual committed a crime. Based on the answers to these questions and all her character development from seasons 1-7 and the trauma she went through in s8 why and how did I know she’s going to burn down Kingslanding along with its people before I saw episode 5 ?? It’s time to look back and accept Dany for what she has always been instead of making excuses for what she could’ve been.
Trope AnatomyBulan Yang lalu
Hey! Really good video you've gained a sub :) My opinion hasn't changed though, I've always agreed with those very same examples and always agreed the foundation for this had been laid. I think /u/This_Rough_Magic 's comment on the asoiaf subreddit perfectly sums up why I don't think this counters the crux of my argument. It's pretty much a summary of my video. www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/dpo1ku/spoilers_extended_foreshadowing_is_not_character/f5wz9sd/ Anything I say here would just be repeating that.
Dark1624Bulan Yang lalu
The moment you started defending slavery I stopped watching.
Joe RundleBulan Yang lalu
I strongly disagree with what you are saying about Dany being violent to the slavers showing that she would kill all of kings landing..... she didnt give a fuck about those in power. she wanted people who had oppressive rules to be overthrown. Most of her acts of violence where against people who held power and abused it. and Mirri Maz Dur was killed because she took away the only protection that Dany ever had. Dany was forever seeking to gain power so she could protect those the each society abused. and for you to say her killing the slave masters is down a path to killing the common folk of kings landing then i would have to say you and i have vastly different reads on morality
StallyManBulan Yang lalu
Thats exactly my analysis too, its like you've read my mind!
Daniel CohenBulan Yang lalu
"There’s a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in his hand." -Ser Jorah Mormont, 3x3 Do people seriously think this doesn’t apply to Dany just because she’s a woman? And her "sword" is not actually a sword, but rather a full-grown fire-breathing dragon.
GuruthosaBulan Yang lalu
This is great. And you're completely right in my opinion. The ingredients are there. The execution was just off. And not only in the last season, but from far earlier on. The story itself is fine in principle.
Eltharion 21Bulan Yang lalu
Partially I agree, though show has huge inconsistencies in regard of character motivations, their choices and consequences , most glaring example is Arya Stark who after many brutal murders including tearing persons eyes out and torture, cooking people into pie and mass murdering entire family is left as rather sane person.
SkylitzeBulan Yang lalu
This is definitely the direction the books are taking, but I think they'll do it in a way that furthers her hypocritical dichotomies without making some of the overwrought mistakes the show made, like suddenly deciding that everyone in Westeros has a modern Western code of morality. This wouldn't be some exceptional war crime by Westerosi standards. It'll be the ultimate conclusion of her story, but instead of pushing her into a pure black baddy, it'll stratify her shades of grey into an even more confusing palette of good and bad. The ultimate expression of GRRM's idea that good and bad exist within everybody; Dany has both the most benevolent heart, the most pure and genuine impulses for good and peace, and the most ruthless propensity for violence and wanton evil existing at the exact same time inside of a single person.
Mega IbfernapeBulan Yang lalu
I agree the ingredients are there, but from that line about her revenge to the masters, we see she is impulsive. I think if one of the dragons, one if the characters died DURING the battle and the battle wasn't such a slaughter from the beginning then it would be explained.
JBulan Yang lalu
Oh look ripping off a far superior IDreporterr but not shocking coming from the gatekeeping soy boy of the fandom.
Jonny BBulan Yang lalu
Nah we didn't downplay the signs of Daeny's craziness. It just wasn't set up well, at all. Was poorly written and not brought together well.
z HaxeuBulan Yang lalu
I watched the video and I wish to write a response, sorry in advace for the novel, also sorry for the possible grammar/spelling/syntax mistakes, English isn't my first language. I see the points you're making and I think they're definitely good, and I agree with the fact that this was the ending Daenerys was always going to have. She was meant from the start to loose the moral battle she was fighting all along and go "mad" in the end. However, I think the way she'll get there in the books is going to be vastly different in the sense that it will make complete sense. I actually haven't read them yet, but I've already heard that she is even more violent. The problem with the show, is that they literally rushed the last seasons, and made so many jumps that the ending fell completely flat, hence the dissapointment of so many fans, me included. Example : you argue that Dany destroying King's Landing is in character for her, and I think you're only partly right. She indeed has been acting similarly throughout the show, however, for all these examples, it had a clear purpose, like when she executes those who have betrayed her, or conspired against her. It makes sense because she needs to be feared and respected, if she doesn't execute them it would send a message that she is weak and can be taken advantage of. That kind of ruthlessness is in character, that kind of ruthlessness doesn't make the fanbase explode in anger and dissapointment. Now let's talk about the destruction of Kings Landing. During the battle, it is clear that her and Drogon will be victorious as their firepower is just too great. The defenses are heavily outmatched, so they surrender. Meaning she has already conquered the city when the bells sing, but she decides to burn King's Landing anyway. For no apparent reason other that she is mad. This act of her had no build up. Being tough with her ennemies isn't the same as burning alive millions of innocent westerosi, that btw she plans on winning the hearts. She gains nothing from this at all, on the contrary, she antagonizes herself in front of the entire continent, she kills what would be many valuable prisoners, she destroys what she claims is hers by right of inheritance (The countless structures her glorious ancestors built before her, although that doesn't even end up being the case since the Red Keep seems to build it self back up just in time for Bronn the master of coin to join the coucel in the Tower of the hand ), she renders the city completely defenseless and at the Mercy of outside forces, on top of the fact that she murders millions of innocent poor people that she swore to save all these seasons ago, and the list goes on. Now, you see that I'm not arguing against the fact that this was the ending that was supposed to happen from the start, I actually had a similar theory in my head for how her arc was going to end, but it still didnt make sense in the show, because once Dumb & Dumber had to take over the story entirely, they couldn't rely on GGRM to keep somewhat of a consistent narrative. Instead they rushed the last 4 seasons, they rushed especially Daenerys, who needed much more time to develop. We needed to see more of her love story and parting with Jon once she learned of his legacy, needed to see more of how losing her closest friends affected her (Jorah, Missandei, and of course her Dragons), talking about Dragons, they also needed so much more developement, we need to care about all these things and relate to her in order to understand her descent to madness (I don't think one soul really cared when her Dragons died the same way they did when Jorah died...) Instead we get countless laughable inconsitencies, characters coming back for no good reasons other than fan pandering, a clusterfuck of a timeline, no time to expose anything, and we're left with an ending that falls completely flat and is very unstatisfying for very true and valid reasons. You see a lot of the ppl who defend that ending say that the reason the "haters" are dissapointed is because "ThEy HaVeN'T bEeN pAyInG aTtEnTiOn" and that the story was never meant to have a sweet ending, which makes no sense considering they all fell in love with this show for the very reason that it was realistic and ruthless when it came to the fate of the characters and the story (Ned Stark, The Red Wedding etc), so they HAVE been paying attention. Actually I would argue that the ending ends up being very sweet, with all the Stark children (who have always been the real good guys) alive and well in positions of power. Anyway, your video actually made me question some of my beliefs and I appreciate your attempt and defending the show and giving another view among the thousands of negative reviews, but it's still a lost cause for me, Game of Thrones had the worst ending to a tv series ever in entertainment history and that will never change for me, the more I think about it the more entrenched I get in this belief.
angel55558Bulan Yang lalu
Excellent video and very well crafted
IkilledjohnnyBulan Yang lalu
By their own admission, they didn't know the ending until they were filming season 3; so the idea that they were planting seeds for Dany's turn in seasons 1 + 2 is false. I think you're projecting there. Still, I think you're right about this working in the books where the foreshadowing will be stronger, and I appreciate the courage to make something a lot of the community won't agree with, so good on you.
Bolesław BreczkoBulan Yang lalu
You make sense. But if the show needs 20 min video essay explaining main chartacter actions than i don't think it's good writing
Matthew BagleyBulan Yang lalu
DAMAGE CONTROL the video. There is no rationalization for why dany would go attack citizens giving Cersi enough time to practically escape. Her Wrath was all about Cersi. She would have got straight for the Red Keep, and killed the city afterwards if she still wanted to.
Crystal OwensBulan Yang lalu
11/10 best take I've seen all year
Pravin SBulan Yang lalu
You can't judge a character separately from the context of the show as a whole. Various characters in GOT do or threaten incredibly cruel things many times throughout the series. Including many fan favorites, whose ruthless acts are played as justifiable, logical or even heroic (Tyrion burning Stannis' fleet, Sansa feeding Ramsay to dogs, Arya baking Freys and feeding them to their dad). Even Cersei, sadistic and evil as they come, always had a reason for her most brutal acts. If she suddenly committed mass murder of a million people without any reason people would consider it a shift in character (though more easily explained and not nearly as jarring as Dany's). Executing military opponents, killing suspected terrorists, winning battles using the most effective means available to you are all things that most competent leaders in the series have done or would do without hesitation. Why is Dany judged by such a different standard? This twist was one many people thought was coming from way back and it could have been incredible. But it wasn't. It was a rushed mess and even more jarring than Anakin's shift from proud Jedi Knight to child-murdering psychopath in Revenge of the Sith.
mrwho995Bulan Yang lalu
I completely disagree with the video but I respect the time and thought put into it. I think Dany's character was awfully written. The problem isn't that her bloodlust wasn't set up; it was. The problem is that her character was so inconsistent and such a vehicle for mindless fan service that those moments of setup were completely drowned out. They were nothing more than tiny little nuggets of setup so D&D could say 'see, this was always going to happen!' when the overwhelming majority of her screentime was dedicated to showing her as a kind, merciful ruler who detested hurting innocents. The character was borderline schizophrenic, completely behest to the narrative whims of the writers and their desire to create 'epic' moments. So sure, you can pick out plenty of scenes to justify Dany's turn. But you can also pick out plenty of scenes to paint Dany's turn as completely ridiculous and contrived. As many people have. The thing is, this isn't a good portrayal of 'the human heart in conflict with itself'. It's a portrayal of essentially two different characters with the same name played by the same actress. The Dany we saw for 7 seasons had her struggles, but they were narrative struggles, and her inner conflict was at best a tertiary plot thread.The problem is that these two sides of Dany weren't interwined at all, and did not paint the picture of an actual character. This is the result of D&D trying to get their cake and eat it too. They wanted the big epic moments but didn't want there to be an moral ambiguity to them at all because that'd make them less epic. So they scattered in some lines here and there instead. And then you have Arya. A character who, by all counts, was shown to be *far* more evil and sociopathic and willing to kill innocents than Dany ever was. But those scenes weren't supposed to make us question Arya either: we were supposed to root for this psychopathic, genocidal mass murderer because she was 'badass'. It's this that makes "Dany's turn was set up!" even harder to swallow. All that said, regardless of the setup that *was* there, none of it was even close to sufficient to justify Dany's decision to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason. It could have worked with significantly better writing. The pieces were there, set up by GRRM. But D&D did an utterlly horrific job of doing it properly, at almost every point prioritising big scenes and epic moments over coherent characterisation, consistent moral narrative, or long-term character arcs. I'm glad you brought up Breaking Bad. Because that is an *excellent* , perhaps the *perfect* example of how Dany's story could have been done right. *That* was how you show the human heart in conflict with itself; and ironically it sort of *was* what I said above: two different characters played by the same actor. The difference is that the two 'sides' of Walt always felt just like that: two sides of the same person. You could feel and undertsand his struggle, his motivations, his decisions, as his character evolved over time. And no, it wasn't linear either: it had a trajectory, for sure, but there were plenty of bumps and reversals along the way. Compare that to Dany: schizophrenic leaps from hero to meglomaniac so huge the inertia could kill you, but for the most part a very static 'good guy' throughout almost the entire run of the show, followed by a sudden, narratively unjustified turn right at the end. Dany and Walter White serve as excellent examples on opposite ends of the spectrum of how to write complex characters. Dany, on how to do it terribly, and Walt on how to do it masterfully.
Talon407Bulan Yang lalu
I disagree with some of your points , but respect your right to an opinion. People have a right to like season 8, just like I have the right to hate it.
Mare or stallion, There's far more insideBulan Yang lalu
When you have to explain why something isn't as bad as it looks, you did something wrong.
RoK Bottom StudiosBulan Yang lalu
The efap you were in was the worst one I have ever seen. Is that how you debate with people? Just run around in a circle till they get tired and are forced to change the subject? I would rather debate a rotting log at least it won't say everything is subjective as a answer. In the words of David Benioff: Themes are for 8th grade book reports.
Lord Captain Commander Dunn Of the Queen’s GuardBulan Yang lalu
The use of Lindsay Ellis’ video thumbnail is quite amusing to me, also these are similar arguments to what you brought up on efap, so props for consistency
SerbAtheistBulan Yang lalu
It's the Hollywood narrative: brutally effective propaganda that conditions the mind to view the 'good guys' and 'bad guys' in drastically different moral terms. Elves vs the orcs, essentially. And when it turns out the 'good guys' went to war without just cause, committed war crimes, used torture... it is NEVER an indication of the system as a whole. ''Dany would never harm innocents.''
MissMillsonxxBulan Yang lalu
I'm not a Dany fan at all and I do agree that this is where she is headed in the books but I disagree that this was properly done in the show. This is going to be an essay and I apologize in advance for that. 1. Your example of Selyse You say it re-contextualizes the character but... Does it? Maybe this is just me but it was obvious from the jump that this woman was just using Rholler to feel important and empowered since her life was one huge disappointment. No scene better exemplifies this than the scene in the room with all her dead sons. Personally, I wasn't surprised at all when she tried to stop the execution. 2.Your argument on Dany. You're just doing what the other video did... taking examples that fit your notion of the arc. Yes, she's very obviously a hypocrite and she has instances of great cruelty and kindness. So really what we have to ask ourselves is who is Dany at her core? Is she really capable of the mass slaughter (i.e BURNING THEM ALIVE) of innocent men, women, and children, after they have already surrendered? I would argue no (at least not at that point in the narrative), and if you want to convince me of that you need to do more than have her kill morally questionable people who have harmed her or sought to harm her and show me scenes of her saying she'll burn cities to the ground while posturing to enemies (YES, Hizdhar is still an enemy). This is why they needed time to show a more steady decline. As it stands she goes from like a 4/5 on the dictator scale to an 11 in the span of a couple episodes. Breaking Bad is the perfect example of how to do it RIGHT and unlike GOT because they paced Walt's transition to Heisenberg well. (as an aside I think another difference is that Walt was always a egotistical asshole, that aspect of him was just magnified over time whereas I don't think the Dany we meeting in the first episode is a egotistical dictator). You touch on this aspect but I think miss crucial nuance: "Dany has previously taken pleasure in killing" - her lifelong abuser who just threatened to rip out her child. Not equal to innocent men women and children she didn't know in a city that had surrendered. "She had executed helpless, downtrodden people." - Mirri Maz Dur who knowingly killed her unborn child. Mossador who used vigilante justice to murder someone. Not equal to innocent men women and children she didn't know in a city that had surrendered. Obviously you can go back a forth over if the killings of Mirri Maz Dur and Mossador are morally justified or not but they are not even close to on the level with what she did in KL. "She had invoked collective punishment without trial." - On slavers who had committed mass murder of children. Not equal to innocent men women and children she didn't know in a city that had surrendered. Again, you can discuss the morality but again it is not on the level of what she did in KL where there is no moral argument. "She had been driven by anger into killing a man to send a message." - Not at all on the same level of mass murder of innocents (again, including CHILDREN). "She had shown a clear desire to burn cities to the ground." - She's posturing to her enemies. Before KL when did she ever actually do that? She took Yunkai without any bloodshed because she didn't want to harm innocents. "She had ruthlessly burned people alive en masse to achieve political goals." OK this one is just disingenuous. They were SOLDIERS who were actively trying to kill her and had not surrendered. Not at all equal to killing civilians after they have surrendered. Honestly, the fact that this seemed rushed to millions of people (including professional critics) says something. What is more likely, that they ALL didn't get it or that the writing to get to this point was clumsy and not well paced?
Agent Z46Bulan Yang lalu
Dude, I appreciate you so much. Saying things like this is sadly pretty taboo and I love that you're not afraid to say it. And I agree with a lot of what you say, plus you put your thoughts out in a really well done way.
Sergei VasilevBulan Yang lalu
Great analysis! I’m so tired of seeing videos that just blatantly bash everything about got and its characters. Your channel is a breath of fresh air, keep up the great work
Taku The MCBulan Yang lalu
I have been looking forward to this one. Nicely done ser!! Thank you for getting it and Great Work!
paradoxBulan Yang lalu
Dany is too complicated a character for people who just want to cheer for the pretty dragon lady to understand. Idk how many times she had to say she's going to burn cities to the ground before people believe her.
Terell ChapmanBulan Yang lalu
*Thank* *you* I’ve never liked Daenerys and I slowly started to hate her more and more. She was always hypocritical and power hungry. So her doing that was a shock but not a character assassination.
Kyle MurrayBulan Yang lalu
I feel like you might be one of the only IDreporterrs I watch who is able to acknowledge the shortcomings of the show while still exploring the story in an interesting way. I had a lot of problems with some of the story decision making, but I really feel like Dany's arc is not one of them. I said to my friends I think it's one of the few things they did well story wise and got my head figuratively screamed off 😂 I firmly believe most people who say her character development was rushed or doesn't make sense are just using the show's other problems to excuse the fact that her turn was heartbreaking for them.
Rheya RuizBulan Yang lalu
"i wish i had enough poison for the lot of you, i would gladly give my life to watch you all swallow it"- Tyrant Tyrion who ended up as the hand. females with too much power are too emotional to rule. starks and friends all live through impossible means but Dany's friends and dragons die through the easiest and stupidest measure for the Starks to have a happy ending. Thanks i hate it, this vid just reignited my hatred for ruining Daenerys and stripping her of her good heart
also its funny how all these things dont happen in the books. just sayin....
Daenerys killed Mirri for killing her unborn child without permission. why is this so difficult to grasp? as a mother u dont get to tell what a mom should do with their childs murderer
what about Jon still loving his mass murdering girlfriend ygritte? i still hate it and thinks it doesn't work and having her die as a sacrificial hero would've been better. also how about we dont have her agree to help the north if she's so evil. i appreciate your attempts at the show apology but it doesn't work. sorry sir its poorly executed and she deserved better than this double standard bs. "everywhere she goes evil men die and we cheer her for it" like every single character in this show? no thanks the gaslighting to her and her fans is cringe and im so glad people hate S8.
evilcatladyBulan Yang lalu
proud loserBulan Yang lalu
I love you, can I say that? The title of this video? Everything I needed. I can't even have proper discourse about GOT anymore online (let alone on this particular subject or Bran) without being told 'get lost,' among other [petty, squabbling, alarming] things. For simply holding the view that Daenerys was always going this route. I just thank you for putting this subject out there, and like this. I hope more people will come to see this as it is and not for what it isn't. True analysis without aggression.
georgekostarasBulan Yang lalu
I appreciate your take on this. While it’s easy to be hyperbolic, you’re extremely well thought out and articulate. And I like how your video essay comes back after most hot takes have cooled
kaiowas12Bulan Yang lalu
You might be giving the showrunners too much credit given their recent comments :)
Wolfmas ohrkBulan Yang lalu
How can you say that one of the top members of the slaver familes in the dragon dungeon scene was an innocent? I know you obviously arent a slave lover but still lol.
Aegon ConquerorBulan Yang lalu
Guvisha HeubergerBulan Yang lalu
Thank to your vision and way to express it, I was able to find peace with GOT’s finale. You make a greater justification to the creative decisions that Benioff and Weiss made, than the decisions themselves. Great videos!
Nick H.Bulan Yang lalu
Yezen, time and time again I come to the conclusion that you are one of the few people who actually understand ASOIAF and what Martin's vision for it is. You are able to eloquently and concisely communicate analytical concepts in an interesting format, and I always come away from your videos having learned to appreciate a new perspective. Don't stop writing! You've got something here!!
Kaleb AntoineBulan Yang lalu
I still think season 8 is bad, but I do have a newfound appreciation for it thanks to your videos.
Sorry, have to double click on it. Something that more or less and validates your entire argument is the city surrendered. Is Kings Landing had continued to defy her and she burned down the city as a reprisal to that I would agree. But they surrendered. They had stopped fighting and had given up and accepting her rule. She is neither being threatened, being challenged, or anything. She had two finitive Lee one. The soldiers lay down their weapons and arms and everyone had surrendered. That is why It makes no sense that is why it is beyond the Realms of her character..
QUEEN DAENERYS STORMBORN TARGARYENBulan Yang lalu
I've literally been avoiding game of thrones videos . Let's see if you wake the dragon edit: DRACARYS 🔥 🔥🔥 🔥🔥 🔥🔥 🔥
I KNOW WHAT IS GOOD
RaymaBulan Yang lalu
Thank you for this good sir! Everbody has been taking crazy pills!
Hail SatanBulan Yang lalu
I don't care about foreshadowing or all of the arguments I've seen so far. What I am mad about (among the many things in S8) is that this bitch easily took out walls, ships and scorpions with a single dragon (somehow not injured from the ant-like wights from E03), and then WENT OUT OF HER WAY to burn down a surrendered city, after seeing the Red Keep. She wasn't even aming for anything but people running away from her. And after that she is on a cocaine-high as if she has been enlightened by genocide, so that Jon had to kill her. It just has been one stupidity after another. Her burning away the city is like the dog who tricked himself into believing the owner threw the ball (Red Keep) despite still seeing it in his hand. But then running away and back again(genocide) for the fun of it before taking the ball away from the owner. Jon not trying to defend her (speaking to Tyrion) and then doing so was well done actually. He "loved" her and couldn't accept her being a mad tyrant. But his belief cracked when Tyrion challenged his false belief. Edit: I'm not actually mad, I'm too disappointed and now ambivalent to GoT to actually care. I'm used to franchises disappointing me: Halo 5, Star Wars 7&8, GoT... List goes on. I'm just happy for the series that have not let me down and for the books that will erase Dumb and Dumber's failure to conclude a series. no potato here.
You ou can't use the shitty writing from 5-7 to justify anything. The character writing for all of the major characters became a Waterdown flanderization of their previous selves. Jon loses his moral depth, Tyrian loses his intelligence, Danny becomes a one-note character, and Arya becomes a psycho bitch. Barristan lived under a king that tortured and killed all the same. All that posturing doesn't mean she's a crazy bitch she was about to be left to die and she acted with a show of strength as the Dothraki would. Okay, now I know you're being disingenuous. If you've read it then you know the script for season 8 episode 5 is ridiculous. The lines contradict and make no sense. And in every war there is casualties. You can't make a military campaign without them. Good video though. 😬
NahmeBulan Yang lalu
Your videos have honestly given me a whole new view of the show and the ending over all. Im soo happy that i stumbled upon your channel in recommended my man, been watching most of your videos since and the quality and insight is just out of this world. You also got me hooked on speculation and analysis channels and been addicted for like 4 months now so my deepest respect is hereby given to you. Also if anybody is curious where to click after this video, i make music on IDreporter (covers) and on Spotify (originals.) just search ‘Nahme’. Peace 😁
ShadowPa1adinBulan Yang lalu
This is kind of weird, but I think that reading Joe Abercrombie's "The First Law"-trilogy and watching the 90's "Berserk" anime several years before I watched the final season of GoT provided a sort of mental "immunity" to the season 8 outrage that spread across the fandom. I say this as both those stories involve characters who make choices in the climax that cause you to re-evaluate their all their previous actions in light of the new revelation provided by said decision.
Paprico MuertoBulan Yang lalu
This video finally gave me a closure to GoT I needed. Thank you man!
Dark ProphitBulan Yang lalu
Who hasn't eaten a baby or two, eh?
Lilamedusa BaudeliaBulan Yang lalu
Hadn't you already uploaded this video?